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Author Topic: finally here .. but the result data conflicts  (Read 3409 times)
Hakeem
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« on: September 24, 2012, 05:27:18 PM »

This a comment for this page on the website
I don't understand why there is such a difference of the  results i am reading here and I can see on DPReview high ISO and dynamic range results.

Over there, it is always seen better than any APSC you select on comparison tool.

Strange!
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Hakeem - A Soft Coder
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Emacs23
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« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2012, 06:02:09 PM »

Because DPR "testing" procedures are crap
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AaronMC
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« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2012, 06:15:20 PM »

I think that is because DxOMark's testing is more rigorous, or perhaps different is a better term. They determine their ISO score based on the point that detail, dynamic range, and color depth all stay above a certain value.

So for example, a camera may do very well as regards detail retention, but the camera will still get a score of 600 from DxO if the color depth or DR drop too low.
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DXOMARK
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« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2012, 06:15:59 PM »

No.

I think DXOMark's testing is crap, falsified and bribed ! ! !

I rather trust DEPREVIEW than DXOMARK ! ! !

 Shocked Angry

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seta666
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« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2012, 06:42:23 PM »

In DPR it shows very good performance because ISO is off by one full EV, I call that cheating
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Hakeem
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« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2012, 07:47:11 PM »

Well I can't tell who's crap or bribed! big words

But their testing mechanism is different.

If DxoMark is testing using caliberated ISOs than I can understand, otherwise I prefer DPReview as atleast I can see their test results, photos infront of you taken at different ISOs.

If ISOs are so different their Exposure time should vary and I don't understand why DPReview couldn't noticed that  Huh and if not why DXO can't see the  cleaner photos from EM-5 over other APSC.
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Hakeem - A Soft Coder
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hoodlum
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« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2012, 07:57:29 PM »

DPreview only tests exposure differences with JPEG.  DXO tests the exposure difference with RAW.  That is the difference you are seeing here.

Some E-M5 users have already reported that RAW is underexposed by 1EV vs JPEG when shooting RAW+JPEG.  Oly likely does this to help preserve the highlights.  So they likely push the RAW output of shadows and mid-tones by 1EV, leaving highlights underexposed therefore preserving them in JPEG.  You noticed from Dpreview the E-M5 had very high JPEG DR.
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Hakeem
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« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2012, 09:21:16 PM »

Yes I can understand that, Nikon also does the same with D-Lightning. So with RAW+JPEG on, I experienced same with Nikon D90 and even more with D5100. So if you are setting RAW+JPEG in Oly OMD you will get the same, as same exposure will be applied on both formats. However when taking in  RAW mode only this shouldn't be a problem. DPReview compare photos in RAW and high ISO too, why they didn't noticed difference in exposure? http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympusem5/21
I will raise the concern in DPR forum too.
I can understand the excuse for pushing up in SLT cameras, but in m43?

Also where its mentioned in DXOMark website, what testing procedure they are using? As I can't find it. It should  be mentioned somewhere  that they use  caliberated ISOs and not factory default one!

But then I also noticed, DXO never tested Fuji EXR modes properly, they always tested on standard mode, never in hardware DR-priority mode! Even a few times I requested here to retest the  cameras in DR mode too, even if it cost drop in resolution, as for many of us its not an issue, but lower DR is!

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Hakeem - A Soft Coder
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jkrumm
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« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2012, 10:11:21 PM »

Oly has built this in to their cameras since the E30. It applies to both jpeg and raw, and commercial raw processors respect the tone curve so you see the brightness you expect when you import a raw. That's why DPR doesn't say much on it (they did at first, and even wrote a little clarifying article). In some open source processors like Raw Therapee, you don't get the automatic brightening. 


Yes I can understand that, Nikon also does the same with D-Lightning. So with RAW+JPEG on, I experienced same with Nikon D90 and even more with D5100. So if you are setting RAW+JPEG in Oly OMD you will get the same, as same exposure will be applied on both formats. However when taking in  RAW mode only this shouldn't be a problem. DPReview compare photos in RAW and high ISO too, why they didn't noticed difference in exposure? http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympusem5/21
I will raise the concern in DPR forum too.
I can understand the excuse for pushing up in SLT cameras, but in m43?

Also where its mentioned in DXOMark website, what testing procedure they are using? As I can't find it. It should  be mentioned somewhere  that they use  caliberated ISOs and not factory default one!

But then I also noticed, DXO never tested Fuji EXR modes properly, they always tested on standard mode, never in hardware DR-priority mode! Even a few times I requested here to retest the  cameras in DR mode too, even if it cost drop in resolution, as for many of us its not an issue, but lower DR is!


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Hakeem
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« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2012, 02:26:14 AM »

@jkrumm
well yo don't get auto brightening in Lightroom RAW as well, atleast I noticed it during my imports on nikon D5100.

why you think there is a difference in results on techradar review of OMD-EM5 (which clearly is the best in DR and high ISO) and DXOMark, while they are also using the same tools to measure  Huh
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Hakeem - A Soft Coder
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jkrumm
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« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2012, 05:03:54 PM »

I'm not sure why your Nikon raw files don't do that. It all depends on what information is carried over with the raw file, and what Lightroom or other processors are designed to do with a file. With m43, that includes automatic lens corrections. And with Oly (and maybe the new GH3) that includes making an iso 200 exposure look like an iso 200 exposure, even if the sensor iso is closer to 100. The Techradar review tested Tiffs, I think, well before any raw converters were ready (other than Olympus Viewer). Seems to produce different results, perhaps to do with the extra noise reduction that automatically happens in Viewer.

@jkrumm
well yo don't get auto brightening in Lightroom RAW as well, atleast I noticed it during my imports on nikon D5100.

why you think there is a difference in results on techradar review of OMD-EM5 (which clearly is the best in DR and high ISO) and DXOMark, while they are also using the same tools to measure  Huh
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 06:06:25 PM by jkrumm » Logged
Hakeem
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« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2012, 11:15:20 PM »

Don't know maybe, but then
I think Tiff are generated from RAW for further testing as they don't have any compression artifacts/ side effects.

And if they are testing without proper RAW convertors from Olympus or Thirdparty, this should only give Olympus some disadvantage Huh

Anyways I hate the fact we are only speculating here, probably if DXO don't bother explaining these things officialy, I should regards their results with less value or maybe just ignore them altogether  Sad
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Hakeem - A Soft Coder
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Pany GH1, GF3, Oly Pen-EP1, XZ-1, Nikon D5100
Interested in Sony A580, Nikon J1
Waiting for Oly XZ-2, Pany GH3, Nikon D800/ Canon 5D-III
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